Episode 3: On Being in the Client's Chair

Morning, Claire. Morning, Isabelle. How are things on your end?

Yeah, great, thank you. I've just been busy thinking about lots of things, but in particular, thinking about this episode today. We are going to be talking about our own therapy for the therapist.

How have you been?

Good, yeah, busy as always. I'm definitely excited to be here today, and like you said, today's topic is going to be very interesting. We will be looking at what it's like to sit in the chair of the client when we are therapists ourselves and all related aspects.

Yes, it's a big question. When I was reflecting on this, I realized that therapy for psychotherapists feels very much like the norm. It's an expectation and almost a requirement. If it's not a requirement, it's highly recommended and expected to some degree. However, it seems to be quite different for psychologists. There doesn't seem to be this requirement, and while I do speak to people who have had their own therapy, it doesn't seem to be as frequently spoken about. Additionally, I think there can still be a bit of stigma around this. What are your thoughts?

Speaking from my perspective and my experience in the Master of Clinical Psychology program, the idea of seeing a therapist, if it did pop up, wasn't something you shared openly. It wasn't encouraged in the program. For me, I did seek my own therapy while I was studying because I wanted to explore some of the things that were coming up for me. I didn't know if I was doing something unique in my cohort because it just wasn't spoken about.

Wow, so you took that step yourself and took your own initiative but didn't really know what others were doing. It was a bit vulnerable, thinking, "I've got things that I want to talk about and need to talk about. Are people going to judge me because I'm doing that?"

Gosh, that must have taken so much courage and a lot of initiative on your part to realize that this was something that would be helpful. Coming from someone who has had some Psychotherapy training, as I said, is certainly recommended and almost expected. It was a very different experience, but I think we would all benefit from therapy for the same reasons, regardless of whether we're coming from psychology or psychotherapy. Whatever modality we're practicing, we could all benefit from that. You realized that it was going to be helpful, and of course, it's going to bring things up. This work causes us to reflect on our own experiences and reactions. I imagine that was a really brave and difficult decision for you and quite isolating as well.

It did feel a little isolating, but I remember thinking, "First of all, this is going to make me a better clinician. I wanted to be the best I could be and didn’t want any of my own stuff getting in the way of that. I would like to have a long and healthy career, so I was open to the fact that this was something that would help me." I was also open-minded about knowing what it's like to be in the client chair. I was curious about having that experience and feeling what it's like. Now, as the therapist, I remember those feelings of being unsure, confused, uncertain, not knowing what to expect, and nervous. It has benefited me and really helps us understand how our clients feel, not just imagine that it must be difficult for them to come, but actually know what it's like to sit in that other chair.

I remember doing that for the first time. Even though I came with a different experience, I decided to do some training in psychodynamic therapy, and it was strongly recommended that I seek my own therapy. I thought, "Well, this sounds like it's recommended; it probably is a good idea," but I didn't really know what I was going to talk about, even though I knew there was probably a lot. It was a very different experience walking in, being in that other chair, and having this other person asking me questions. It was quite difficult at times to share some of those more vulnerable experiences that you might not readily share with people. It was a unique experience, but as you say, it gives you a real sense of what it's like for a client to walk into our room for the first time. There's something about getting that because we've been there, rather than imagining that it might be hard for them. Even just being brave enough to trust a perfect stranger you've never met, navigating those experiences, and working out if this is the right therapist for you, feeling like you can completely be yourself and share some of the more vulnerable things that you don't share with everyone else—all of those things. Not to mention joining with that therapist and going through the experience of reframing, analyzing, learning, and growing.

Yes, because what I love about what you've just done is you've defined some of the different stages of therapy. There's the initial phase of trust-building. Of course, we try our best to be open, supportive, and empathic. Fostering that trust, but also knowing that it doesn't always come easily. Even a client who seems very open and forthcoming is probably holding things back, making assumptions or judgments about the therapeutic relationship we're offering them. It's important to respect that they need some time with that as well. From my own experience, I needed time. I knew that person was going to be trustworthy, hold my information safely, and have my interests at heart. However, there's a big difference between cognitively knowing that and feeling it in the room, letting it develop over time.

Absolutely. Then, you're moving into that reframing or challenging. Having someone hold a mirror up to my own responses and behaviors was very uncomfortable but incredibly valuable. Parts of it I didn't enjoy at all, and that trust had to develop before I could even get to that point.

Yeah, and here we are as professionals, expecting clients to join us and go through this process. Just hearing you talk reminds me of my experience and those scary moments when the mirror was held up, and I had to confront my responses and reactions. I had to decide whether to say, "This is just how I'm going to be," or do the work the therapist suggested. I was doing CBT journal work and thought challenging, and I had to do it because I can't be a therapist asking clients to do things I'm not willing to do myself.

That's an important point. I tend to use the interventions that were most helpful for me and approach their style. Finding a therapist that aligns with your own style and way of working is important. If you're thinking, "I wouldn't do this with my clients," that's going to be problematic. There are many different styles of therapy, and finding a therapist that aligns with us is crucial but not easy. Doing a little research beforehand and finding that good match is essential, which I hope our clients do when finding us as well.

Most definitely. I used to teach a counseling module as part of a Bachelor of Applied Social Science or Psychotherapy, depending on the stream. It was an introduction to basic counseling skills: summarizing, paraphrasing, open questions, and other helpful information. One of the first assessments was to see a counselor with permission to record the session, then write about the session and the experience. I thought it was a wonderful introduction to counseling. Even if it didn't go further than the first session, it normalized the process of going to a counselor. It also encouraged reflection on what it was like to sit in that chair and summarize the skills demonstrated in the counseling and the overall experience. There were lots of different types of responses. I used to love marking that assessment. It was a great way to normalize seeking support because we want to make this process accessible to anyone who needs support. By putting ourselves in that situation and being open to it, we encourage anyone curious about seeking support in this profession, which is incredibly valuable. Why should we, as therapists, be excluded from being encouraged to do that?

I totally agree. If it's not recommended, encouraged, or spoken about, it can discourage people who need support from accessing it. How do we know if anyone else is doing this? Should I be coping with this? It reinforces the pressure felt through the internship program, which is tough. We're telling people to make time for themselves and consider stepping out into the space of being the client when they need it, or even if they don't think they need it.

Even if you don't think you need it. My experience of going into therapy during psychodynamic training involved twice-weekly therapy for several years. I was in an intensive therapy process. I didn't feel I had a need for it initially, but once there, I realized how much work there was to do. I don't think I would be the therapist I am today if I hadn't had that experience.

Wow, that's so amazing to hear. For me, coming from a clinical psychology background, I think I'm going to encourage more supervisees to seek their own therapy and to normalize that we are all human. We are not immune. Even if we don't think we have any big experiences or history to talk about, just being human in the society and roles we play, we're always going to have something that could be worked through.

Yes, even if we don't know it's there. I learned so much about countertransference, which involves my own responses to being in the therapy room. Being able to distinguish between what was the client's and what was my own history was crucial. For example, I may have a response to something the client says, which could be useful information about how that client responds in other relationships. However, sometimes my response is triggered by my own history. If I wasn't aware of that, it could interfere with the session, leading to a reenactment of my history and theirs, which isn't effective. Recognizing my part, parking it, and reflecting on it later, often in my own therapy, was essential.

Self-reflection and supervision play big roles in that. I had a supervisor who helped me differentiate whether an issue was for supervision or for therapy. Knowing you're in therapy is valuable because your supervisor can guide you on which space to address certain issues. Discussing personal impacts in supervision is still valuable, even if it's more appropriately dealt with in personal therapy. Initially, we don't always know if countertransference is coming from the client or our own experience. A good supervisor helps navigate this.

Good supervision doesn't replace doing your own therapy but it supports the process. I'm curious about key takeaways for our listeners today.

I hope this discussion normalizes therapy for therapists. As experienced therapists and supervisors, sharing our own experiences can normalize how helpful therapy is, both personally and professionally. Even if it's not openly discussed among peers, knowing it happens is important. I'd love a broader discussion on this because many therapists do seek therapy themselves.

It's also important to acknowledge the position of privilege. There are significant financial implications, especially during internships when funding is limited. I don't want people to feel pressured to start therapy immediately. It took me a few years after being registered before I started my own therapy. I wish I'd done it sooner, but financially, I couldn't have. It's important to choose a therapist who aligns with your preferred modality to make the most of the opportunity, not only for personal exploration but also to learn from their style and interventions.

If you're in an employment situation and worried about financial constraints, consider an Employee Assistance Program (EAP). Most organizations have them. EAP is provided for free, usually offering five sessions with a psychologist or a trained therapist counselor. I really encourage that. We've talked about some great things today, Claire. We've really covered and encouraged our listeners to think about the process and benefits of putting yourself in the client chair, what it's like to seek therapy yourself, some of the ways to go about it, and the benefits of doing it. We definitely encourage people to consider therapy, understand its benefits, and know that it's okay to be human and need to do this work ourselves.

Yes, I think you've summed that up perfectly. We want to destigmatize having therapy, regardless of the reason we seek it. We owe it to ourselves to look after ourselves. Our clients get the best of us when we are in our best state.

Thank you, Claire. That's such a good point, and I think that's why we're doing this. We want to be the best therapists and humans we can be. To do that, we must be open to reflecting on all aspects of ourselves, not just the professional side.

All right, have a great week, and we'll see you all next time.

Yes, thank you, everybody. We'll see you soon. Bye.